91°F (32.7°C) in the factory I work at.
The law states “all factories must maintain a reasonable temperature and humidity.”
Nowhere is reasonable ever defined. I am mildly infuriated. And very hot lol
Edit: 94° (34.4C) now and this post has made it close to the top of “Hot”… The gods are having a laugh lol
Default password on that model is 1234 /salute
“For our profits, it is reasonable not to waste money on AC.” – Your boss
It’s like that here in Germany too. They have a legal lower temperature limit, but otherwise it’s just “if it’s hot you have to give your employees water.”
It will be 40C next week. No AC in my office.
I definitely feel for you guys in Europe, a lot of tough arguments to be had with employers coming up… If I understand correctly AC isn’t that common because it historically hasn’t been as necessary as it has been in the US. The future unfortunately is looking to make it necessary pretty much everywhere :(
I live in the hottest part of Germany. In the north, AC honestly isn’t that necessary and we managed really well by just keeping the blinds closed, but down here it’s impossible.
You’re not alone! I worked 12 hours in 37°C (99°F), 47% humidity yesterday. However, we get essentially unlimited breaks in an air conditioned break room, have cooling vests filled with ice packs we can wear on the floor, and are supplied with sports drinks and feeezies. Your work can’t really make the world less hot, but they can work with you to avoid development of heat related illnesses!
The cooling vests are something I should bring up in my next health and safety meeting! I doubt they’ll buy them, but at least we’ll have it on record that it was brought up lol
We used to have a purchasing agent that would buy water and stuff when it got really hot, but now we have one that argues about buying stuff we need to actually do our job let alone feel comfortable doing it lol
What’s a few heat strokes of disposable employees when owners can get richer?
He literally threatened to move the shop because the town wouldn’t let him build a helipad for himself lol
Rich people problems
A few hundred bucks of cooling stuff vs how many tens or hundred thousands if everyone keels over?
literally in the danger zone unless it’s super dry where you are.
Thanks for the image, I’m definitely saving that for future use!
Apparently we’re in “extreme caution,” even though it feels humid the forecast says we’re around 50% humidity
I guess dry heat is a thing. I can do >110 fine, I don’t like it, but I don’t feel in danger. But its 10% or less humidity. Its usually better to wear more clothes just to keep the direct sun off you. Somehow wearing a hoodie in the desert in summer is comfortable. Its also nice not getting sweaty because it immediately evaporates.
I spent a summer in south India a few years ago during monsoon season. I was fucking miserable in my jeans and shirts until I switched over to wearing loose, flowing clothes made of bleached kahdi (loose homespun cotton) like the locals. It keeps the sun off you and even when it gets soaked it doesn’t cling to your skin, and then whenever the rain stops it dries completely very quickly. Other westerners I met made fun of me for pretending to go native, but they had no clue how effective it was.
Luckily my ambulance has AC. Here’s our top temp from yesterday:
As someone living in the equator where sun is fucking angry at us everyday, 32°c indoor is toasty, and 34°c indoor is torture. You should report to the authority and let them know.
Unless you work near furnace of course.
Authorities: Quit complaining and get back to work, peasant!
This is America, what authorities give a damn about how hot you are? If there was one, I’m sure Musk’n’Trump got rid of them.
OSHA probably cares.
The company should care, because if the workers are dropping off because of heat stroke, they’re not creating value for the shareholders.
Luckily Trump is doing away with those pesky OSHA people
Musk’s DOGE is shuttering OSHA’s office in ‘Cancer Alley’—despite how dangerous it is - Fast Company https://share.google/YIHqcaHv9m1FaoTXj
Unless i missed it, OP didn’t mention being in America though, and judging from the instance they might be from Netherlands.whoops, really missed it. Also like the other person said, OSHA.
Wait until you see 41°C.
(Atleast i was home when it was 40°C. Otherwise i’d be literally cooked.)
I was in Venice at 41C with 90 percent humidity. It was like trying to breathe underwater.
I hope that also isn’t 80% humid, that is literally spa.
I worked in plastic extrusion for nearly a decade.
The front of the line would be about 85, but the back of the kine, where the work was, hit 110°F to 120F° in the summers.
Absolute hell
I work in environmental, health, and safety, and industrial hygiene, so workplace safety is my jam. You are correct that the regs are shit. Unless you live in one of five states with heat related regulations, you’re really only covered by OSHA’s general duty clause, which can be summed up as “employers have to at least make a good faith effort to do the bare minimum to not hurt their employees”. It sucks.
For workplace temperature, what you’ll want to look at is wet-bulb temperature, not the dry-bulb reading provided by a thermostat. You can find online calculators that’ll calculate it by temperature and relative humidity. Wet bulb is the measurement accounting for evaporative cooling, so a better approximation of what temperature a human body experiences. Theoretically, a wet-bulb temperature of 35°C (95°F) or more isn’t sustainable and will always lead to heat illness with sustained exposure. Around 30°C (about 85°F) is where we start seeing issues if people don’t consider any steps to avoid heat illness.
It gets tricky from there as there are a ton of variables to determining a safe temperature, e.g., hydration, environmental radiant heat, cardiovascular health, level of acclimation, nature of the work, body mass, break frequency, access to air conditioned spaces, etc.
For example, at 94°F, a healthy adult performing moderate physical activity out of the sun (or away from any other heat source) should be fine up to about 75% humidity (so a wet bulb of 85°F), assuming they are dressed appropriately, acclimated to the temperature, remain hydrated, take periodic rest breaks in an air conditioned space (I’d advise 10 minutes on the hour, maybe more). I also recommend a monitoring/emergency response program
Let me know if I can help at all. I love heat, but working in it is just miserable.
Thank you for the detailed response! I’ll have to keep an eye on the wet bulb temperature for future discussions about the heat at work.
The regulations really are frustrating especially since I’ve reached out to local “representatives” about how vague they are and naturally got no response lol
Of course! And seriously, hit me up if you need any EHS advice or some real official sounding verbiage. I got laid off so I suddenly have a lot of free time.
Pass out from heat exhaustion and then sue them
For me the main thing would be airflow there, and the type of work. I’ve done full days in 35+ machining but windows and doors were open so there was a breeze which made it bearable (not pleasant days mind you)
So, uh… We have the same thermostat at my job. It’s not great. You can’t just tell it what temperature you want the room to be, you actually have to tell it if you want it to heat or cool to that temperature.
Yours is set set to 65, but if you look to the left of the current temp, it says “heat.” Someone likely forgot to change that when the weather warmed up. IIRC, one of the three unlabeled middle buttons will fix that.
Lol I appreciate the help, but there is literally no AC unit. All we have is oil heat for the winter so the pipes don’t freeze
Pipes over people!
The OSHA recommendation is 68-76F, which isn’t a direct link to ‘reasonable’ but provides a suitable context to frame workplace conditions.
If people’s body temperatures can be measured exceeding 100F a link to heat stress and increasing risk of injury in the workplace can also be drawn as it’s generally the equivalent of working with a fever.
Fun fact: OSHA recommendations aren’t enforceable. Not supporting this, but the only way you can get traction on workplace temperature (unless you’re in California, Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, or Washington) is under the general duty clause. While a smart employer keeps their employees safe and reasonably comfortable, all federal OSHA requires is that you vaguely don’t hurt them.
Environmental temps that high put you a serious risk of heat stroke, though. That seems like a pretty clear health and safety violation.
From OSHA: Exposure to Outdoor and Indoor Heat‑Related Hazards
Dangers of Exposure to Heat Hazards
Exposure to heat hazards both outdoors and indoors could lead to serious illness, injury, or death. Heat-related illnesses and injuries can happen at varying ambient temperatures, especially in cases where workers are not acclimated, perform moderate or higher physical activity, or wear heavy or bulky clothing or equipment, including personal protective equipment. Heat-related illnesses and injuries also generally occur when body heat generated by physical work is performed in conditions of high ambient heat, especially when combined with humidity and inadequate cooling.
Heat Index
The National Weather Service (NWS) uses a heat index (HI) to classify environmental heat into four categories:
- Caution (80°F – 90°F HI);
- Extreme Caution (91°F – 103°F HI);
- Danger (103°F – 124°F HI); and,
- Extreme Danger (126°F or higher HI).
It sounds like you’re in the Extreme Caution (and sometimes in the Danger) category.
OSHA mentions a Heat Safety Tool app in that document, too.
Here’s their Heat Stress Guide, too, which says:
The Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act) requires employers to comply with hazard-specific safety and health standards. In addition, pursuant to Section 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act, employers must provide their employees with a workplace free from recognized hazards likely to cause death or serious physical harm.
Enforceability does vary, but OP should know this sounds like a pretty blatant violation and may be enforceable.
Preface: I work in environmental, health, and safety, and industrial hygiene, so this is my job. Not stating I know all there is to know, just that I know some.
The problem is those are all recommendations, not regulations, so nothing there is enforceable. The NWS heat index advice is meant for the general population without accounting for any mitigating conditions - it’s a catch-all recommendation. It’s meant for you, me, and my 400 pound, 90 year old neighbor with congestive heart failure, all sitting in direct sun without any water or moving air. Millions of people work in hotter conditions on a regular basis, and can do so safely as long as extensive precautions are taken. It’s not comfortable, but it’s safe as long as people are smart about it. Is OP’s employer being smart? Maybe. Let’s go through it together!
Let’s go off of Cal/OSHA’s guidelines, which is a decent program. I think it needs a hard “stop working it’s too damn hot” cutoff, but that’s just me (and every other safety person). Anyhow… if OP has hit 95°F, with a relative humidity of 50%, their heat index is 105. For anything above 80°F, employees need access to a nearby cooler rest area below 82°F. A work environment at 87+°F (82°F w/ hot clothing or high radiant heat) triggers a further response from the employer, foremost in the form of feasible engineering controls - things that make it cooler. This could include air conditioning but, for a larger workplace environment, often ends up being ventilation in the form of big industrial fans since HVAC is massively expensive. Don’t discount the fans, though - I got one at auction and they seriously kick ass. If the employer can afford HVAC but opts for fans, it’s still legal as long as fans work sufficiently (i.e., this wouldn’t fly in a foundry but is fine in many factories), but the employer is just a piece of shit. 'Murica! Past that, we go to administrative controls - changing what people do. This includes mandatory 14 day acclimation periods for new employees, breaks in an air-conditioned space, scheduled hydration, monitoring for non-acclimated employees, and an emergency response plan. Then we’re on to PPE - neck fans, cooling vests, ice packs, etc. The stuff you use when everything else still doesn’t quite cut it.
I don’t know the exact details of op’s workplace but, based on what they’ve communicated, their workplace likely isn’t a serious hazard for a reasonably healthy, heat-acclimated adult taking at least most of the above heat illness precautions. I need more info (like if they’re working with ovens or other heat producing equipment) but my professional, somewhat off-the-cuff recommendation is employees be dressed appropriately, acclimated to the temperature, remain hydrated, take periodic rest breaks in an air conditioned space (I’d advise 10 minutes on the hour, maybe more), and implement a monitoring/emergency response program. Work won’t be comfortable, but it’s unlikely to hurt anyone based on my current, incomplete understanding. Is their boss a giant turd for not getting HVAC when building a helipad was a consideration? Definitely.
Yes, but mightn’t this OSHA info be useful to put the fear of god into them? Based on what I’ve read in OP’s post and comments, it doesn’t sound like the employer is taking any kind of precautions (break room with AC, etc).
There’s no legal case here, but if people are unreasonably uncomfortable, it seems bringing up the OSHA regs (specifically, not generally) could at least get them to improve conditions a bit.
My ex and my son both work in a state and industry where OSHA is a guideline and not a rule (different companies), but if you bring up a possible OSHA violation in a health and safety meeting, it’s taken seriously. Not because they’re worried about citations, but because often that can be grounds for a civil lawsuit if something does happen (it’s a basis for ‘they should have known’), and they will try to meet those standards to cover their ass, right?
I’m talking about residential and commercial property management, not manufacturing, though, so it may be different.
e: I am not arguing with you; I defer to your expertise. I’m just curious and annoyed on OP’s behalf. If this were my son’s workplace, I’d be angry.
Oh no, please argue with me! I always tell my crews to call me out if they disagree. I’m not perfect, I get things wrong. It’s hokey but true: safety is a team effort.
I would recommend bringing up the OSHA guidelines as suggestions on how to improve the workplace and thereby worker morale. There likely isn’t much that’s enforceable that they could report to OSHA as it stands - they seem to be closer to “really damn uncomfortable” territory than imminent danger, but there may be more to this situation I’m not aware of. Getting OSHA in for something unrelated but enforceable is a good tactic too. Keep in mind a certain dipshit administration has cut funding and gutted agencies, so response times may be slow.
I do caution folks to be strategic about speaking up and filing complaints, and to keep a detailed CYA paper trail of EVERYTHING they can for at least a year afterwards, more if they have a sketchy employer. While it’s illegal to retaliate, at-will employment makes it really easy to do so anyhow. I know - I, the damn safety person, once got fired for getting hurt on the job!
That’s great advice, thanks. Also, thank You for doing what’s a mostly thankless job that keeps people safe. You’re in an industry that’s mostly invisible but that’s vitally important, and you probably don’t hear that.
I appreciate what you do.
Awww, thanks! I’ve worked in some dangerous industries, which tends to make employees very grateful that I’m actively working to keep their bones undissolved (not exaggerating), so I luckily get a lot of love in between the safety cop jokes. Plus if they’re nice to me I’ll show them where they won’t get caught napping.
The fear of god isn’t enforceable. The main thing you do in referencing OSHA is to demonstrate a level of knowledge, commitment, or at least interest in the issue. And most of the time it is the appearance of concealing a condition that is the enforced violation. This is usually what companies are actually sensitive to.
So while an OSHA violation is a serious thing, the conditions in question here (heat) are not a regulation that can be violated and therefore enforced in the same way.
Complain that it isn’t reasonable.
We have lol for “them” unreasonable is when the thermostat reads 100° which it just so happens to never hit… We get 98° pretty regularly in the summers, but I’ve only ever seen 99° as the highest not 100…
Sorry I’m not saying to complain so they change it. I’m saying complain and now you have a written record for osha that the temperature is unreasonable. You can now force their hand.
Oh, yeah I’m on record for that for sure. I’m part of the health and safety team so every month each summer I bring up the heat lol
Have you contacted the government safety board?
