I agree with you, but I think it’s important to understand when such laws might be relevant, especially when it comes to unconscious/under the influence. I think that the law needs to be a bit over protective of the passive person, it just needs to be very clear that the law is to be upheld by it’s intent and not by it’s literal definition.
For example maybe a couple X and Y has an agreement on sleep sex, but X decides to abuse it. let’s say they had a fight and person X invited Y to have sex, but Y declined, so person X waits for Y to fall asleep, and then has sex with them. If a week ago they agreed on sex while sleeping, it is still obvious that X abused their verbal agreement to rape Y. So if the law doesn’t protect against that situation it is a problem.
Like a lot of laws, the important thing is to follow the intent and not the written definition, but corruption usually finds loopholes.
I partially agree with your example, but to me that also goes back to both partners being reasonable. At the same time we need to be careful to completely root out normal human behaviour with laws, which laws like these can / will do.
Let’s say that a couple together makes a CNC rule while she’s sleeping. He can just penetrate her while sleeping and continue when she wakes up, no matter what she says, until a safe word is used.
If they then have a fight and after that in bed, the guy then takes that rule and “violates” the girl within their agreed upon rule set, that guy is probably still a dick, because he mixed anger with sex. Even so, crying “rape” because of that, to me, sounds way too far. You both agreed upon this being okay. If this particular scenario isn’t, you probably should have included it in the rules and if you haven’t, then make the rule for the next time. Either way, if the rule is “anything goes until safe word” you can’t cry rape just because you were angry with him.
On the other hand, it you have CNC rules setup, usually you’re already with a partner that you can’t trust that he wouldn’t abuse those privileges but even in case of doubt, you can’t suddenly scream “rape!” if one of them wasn’t ready.
CNC blurs every line in those laws and again brings it down to he said she said. You were sleeping? Well you told me to do this, you’re into this kink, I did, and now we’re in front of a judge
I agree with you, but I think it’s important to understand when such laws might be relevant, especially when it comes to unconscious/under the influence. I think that the law needs to be a bit over protective of the passive person, it just needs to be very clear that the law is to be upheld by it’s intent and not by it’s literal definition.
For example maybe a couple X and Y has an agreement on sleep sex, but X decides to abuse it. let’s say they had a fight and person X invited Y to have sex, but Y declined, so person X waits for Y to fall asleep, and then has sex with them. If a week ago they agreed on sex while sleeping, it is still obvious that X abused their verbal agreement to rape Y. So if the law doesn’t protect against that situation it is a problem.
Like a lot of laws, the important thing is to follow the intent and not the written definition, but corruption usually finds loopholes.
I partially agree with your example, but to me that also goes back to both partners being reasonable. At the same time we need to be careful to completely root out normal human behaviour with laws, which laws like these can / will do.
Let’s say that a couple together makes a CNC rule while she’s sleeping. He can just penetrate her while sleeping and continue when she wakes up, no matter what she says, until a safe word is used.
If they then have a fight and after that in bed, the guy then takes that rule and “violates” the girl within their agreed upon rule set, that guy is probably still a dick, because he mixed anger with sex. Even so, crying “rape” because of that, to me, sounds way too far. You both agreed upon this being okay. If this particular scenario isn’t, you probably should have included it in the rules and if you haven’t, then make the rule for the next time. Either way, if the rule is “anything goes until safe word” you can’t cry rape just because you were angry with him.
On the other hand, it you have CNC rules setup, usually you’re already with a partner that you can’t trust that he wouldn’t abuse those privileges but even in case of doubt, you can’t suddenly scream “rape!” if one of them wasn’t ready.
But cnc is specifically complicated around what would be rape or not. That is not the same as what I was saying.
I think it is though.
CNC blurs every line in those laws and again brings it down to he said she said. You were sleeping? Well you told me to do this, you’re into this kink, I did, and now we’re in front of a judge