Sleeping partner (consensual) I just assumed they would wake up and it will turn into more regular sex but at some point I realized that I can basically do to them whatever I want and they just wouldn’t wake up. It made me feel like it’s rape 😖
Since then I have a rule that if they don’t wake up after a bit, I quit and go to sleep too 😅
If you are in Canada, delete this post. You’ve just confessed to rape under Canadian law. When a person falls unconscious, all sexual consent is revoked; you cannot consent to have sex while you are asleep. There have been cases where police heard about and criminalized what all participants considered to be consensual sex because of this legal principle. It does not require someone “pressing charges”, the police can do this on their own volition.
Yeah, I get that, but also fuck that. If two people consent to do something that won’t cause harm then the government, any government, can keep their grubby hands out of it.
If one of the participants decides to go rogue or off script that is another thing but if two consenting adults agree that “if I’m sleeping I’m all game” then that is what they get to do. Consent can also be revoked at any time, so if the person wakes up and says no, then that’s a no. Until then I don’t need any government in my sex life.
I agree with you, but I think it’s important to understand when such laws might be relevant, especially when it comes to unconscious/under the influence. I think that the law needs to be a bit over protective of the passive person, it just needs to be very clear that the law is to be upheld by it’s intent and not by it’s literal definition.
For example maybe a couple X and Y has an agreement on sleep sex, but X decides to abuse it. let’s say they had a fight and person X invited Y to have sex, but Y declined, so person X waits for Y to fall asleep, and then has sex with them. If a week ago they agreed on sex while sleeping, it is still obvious that X abused their verbal agreement to rape Y. So if the law doesn’t protect against that situation it is a problem.
Like a lot of laws, the important thing is to follow the intent and not the written definition, but corruption usually finds loopholes.
I partially agree with your example, but to me that also goes back to both partners being reasonable. At the same time we need to be careful to completely root out normal human behaviour with laws, which laws like these can / will do.
Let’s say that a couple together makes a CNC rule while she’s sleeping. He can just penetrate her while sleeping and continue when she wakes up, no matter what she says, until a safe word is used.
If they then have a fight and after that in bed, the guy then takes that rule and “violates” the girl within their agreed upon rule set, that guy is probably still a dick, because he mixed anger with sex. Even so, crying “rape” because of that, to me, sounds way too far. You both agreed upon this being okay. If this particular scenario isn’t, you probably should have included it in the rules and if you haven’t, then make the rule for the next time. Either way, if the rule is “anything goes until safe word” you can’t cry rape just because you were angry with him.
On the other hand, it you have CNC rules setup, usually you’re already with a partner that you can’t trust that he wouldn’t abuse those privileges but even in case of doubt, you can’t suddenly scream “rape!” if one of them wasn’t ready.
CNC blurs every line in those laws and again brings it down to he said she said. You were sleeping? Well you told me to do this, you’re into this kink, I did, and now we’re in front of a judge
Sleeping partner (consensual) I just assumed they would wake up and it will turn into more regular sex but at some point I realized that I can basically do to them whatever I want and they just wouldn’t wake up. It made me feel like it’s rape 😖
Since then I have a rule that if they don’t wake up after a bit, I quit and go to sleep too 😅
If you are in Canada, delete this post. You’ve just confessed to rape under Canadian law. When a person falls unconscious, all sexual consent is revoked; you cannot consent to have sex while you are asleep. There have been cases where police heard about and criminalized what all participants considered to be consensual sex because of this legal principle. It does not require someone “pressing charges”, the police can do this on their own volition.
Yeah, I get that, but also fuck that. If two people consent to do something that won’t cause harm then the government, any government, can keep their grubby hands out of it.
If one of the participants decides to go rogue or off script that is another thing but if two consenting adults agree that “if I’m sleeping I’m all game” then that is what they get to do. Consent can also be revoked at any time, so if the person wakes up and says no, then that’s a no. Until then I don’t need any government in my sex life.
It’s been pretty well established that many governments don’t feel the need for consent to get involved in your sex life.
I agree with you, but I think it’s important to understand when such laws might be relevant, especially when it comes to unconscious/under the influence. I think that the law needs to be a bit over protective of the passive person, it just needs to be very clear that the law is to be upheld by it’s intent and not by it’s literal definition.
For example maybe a couple X and Y has an agreement on sleep sex, but X decides to abuse it. let’s say they had a fight and person X invited Y to have sex, but Y declined, so person X waits for Y to fall asleep, and then has sex with them. If a week ago they agreed on sex while sleeping, it is still obvious that X abused their verbal agreement to rape Y. So if the law doesn’t protect against that situation it is a problem.
Like a lot of laws, the important thing is to follow the intent and not the written definition, but corruption usually finds loopholes.
I partially agree with your example, but to me that also goes back to both partners being reasonable. At the same time we need to be careful to completely root out normal human behaviour with laws, which laws like these can / will do.
Let’s say that a couple together makes a CNC rule while she’s sleeping. He can just penetrate her while sleeping and continue when she wakes up, no matter what she says, until a safe word is used.
If they then have a fight and after that in bed, the guy then takes that rule and “violates” the girl within their agreed upon rule set, that guy is probably still a dick, because he mixed anger with sex. Even so, crying “rape” because of that, to me, sounds way too far. You both agreed upon this being okay. If this particular scenario isn’t, you probably should have included it in the rules and if you haven’t, then make the rule for the next time. Either way, if the rule is “anything goes until safe word” you can’t cry rape just because you were angry with him.
On the other hand, it you have CNC rules setup, usually you’re already with a partner that you can’t trust that he wouldn’t abuse those privileges but even in case of doubt, you can’t suddenly scream “rape!” if one of them wasn’t ready.
But cnc is specifically complicated around what would be rape or not. That is not the same as what I was saying.
I think it is though.
CNC blurs every line in those laws and again brings it down to he said she said. You were sleeping? Well you told me to do this, you’re into this kink, I did, and now we’re in front of a judge
So what.
Good to know 😵
But not from canada, also I doubt Lemmy is on the radar right now 😅