The Norwegian prisons have higher standard of living than all the red run welfare Oblasts.
Being in prison sucks though. No matter what. I mean Norwegian prisons are very clean and remarkably comfortable, and Japanese prisons have top notch food (freshly cooked and with fresh ingredients). But I would rather not have the choking lack of freedom in any of them.
For many people, being imprisoned in one of these places would grant them a lot more freedom than they currently have.
I’m sure there’s a starving person in poverty that would disagree. Terrible thought but desperation is common in the working class.
stories of people robbing a bank for $1 to get into prison for medical care comes to mind
There are norwegian prison communities where they can do pretty much anything you could so in a normal community. There are like 5 guards for the entire community.
Wasn’t it Sweden that forgot to lock the prisoners up so they went and baked cakes?
If you are safe from the prisoners and guards, get clean accommodations, are well fed, get outside/gym time for fitness, medical care, time to learn a vocation or study, occasional entertainment time (tv or whatever)… the only thing missing is a romantic partner… honestly, it sounds as good as an all inclusive retreat/vacation.
I imagine not having control over your own life for years at a time would wear one down. But months? If I knew my outside people weren’t suffering because of my actions, it sounds kind of nice.
But I’m an introvert that works from home, so, I’d miss my pets.
the only thing missing is a romantic partner…
That’s a rather glaring flaw. I mean, there’s an alternative in prisons or so they say, but only applies to a subset of people if voluntary.
The thing is, any country that takes care of their prisoners this well also takes care of their own homeless population. If Norway treats its prisoners this well, imagine what their homeless shelters are like.
Dude, it is still a prison. Saying ‘yeah I could use a highly regimented living space for a while’ is one thing. But a prison is still something else.
Workhouses in Victorian England were very harsh places, sometimes even harsher than the prisons of the time… but they were not prisons. If a workhouse inmate wanted to leave, they could up and go at any moment without anyone stopping them. Because it was not a prison.
The difference is that your example is designed to exploit you and, generally, your freedom amounts to “leave and get exploited elsewhere.” This is the same for poverty. Sure, technically you could walk away… But to do what? Suffer elsewhere in poverty?
Those in Swedish prisons aren’t free to leave, but that’s not the only kind of freedom that exists. Freedom from starvation, danger, from the influences that lead to the crime that put you in prison. Is it really so hard to imagine a world where you might give up some freedom for real, tangible safety and peace of mind?
find a pet friendly prison. dont let your dreams stay dreams!
But american prisons generate more profit for the private sector. So who can really say which system is better?
The one with the least amount of repeat offenders.
Why would a for-profit business not want repeat customers?
For-profit prison inmates are more like slaves than customers.
Excellent point, slave labour can be another revenue stream
They’re the product.
Also most prisons the world over are not for profit businesses.
…and the home of the brave!
Play ball!
Let me search up “How to commit crime in Norway”
- go to Norway
- do crime
- ???
- profit
I mean, if you’re going to fly to Norway just to commit a crime, make sure it’s something more unique than just holding up the first bank you see. If you’re going to go, go all out. For example, might I suggest, “operating a meth lab openly on a sidewalk in Oslo,” “building a collection of stolen police cruisers outside your hotel in Trondheim,” or “attempting to blackmail the king of Norway into granting you a royal title.”
Any one knows how I can go to prison in Norway?
Go to Norway and commit crime.
Imma spray paint a horse cop
The most interesting part of that chart in my opinion is that they seem to have 16 persons in prison for unknown reasons. I’m assuming there are some sort of national security involved or perhaps crimes of such a weird nature they have no definition for it. In that case though, what the hell did the last 10 persons do? :D
Those low numbers are likely because the wages in Norway are actually decent living wages.
Go figure, when people are well paid and living decent lives they are less prone to commit crimes.
I also find it funny that one of the “downsides” is that CEO’s and other higher corporate positions can’t earn as much as other places. There’s and interesting correlation in there I think.
Sure, but only because it’s summer. This time the winter they have to be carrying a flashlight wearing their winter parka.
Still, I thirst greatly for their political system, ecological ideals, in general treatment of humanity.
ecological ideals,
Only applicable to their own country. Their mining companies are all too happy to fuck other countries’ environments
(roughly translated title) Norway mining company (Hydro Cred) had “clandestine pipes” to throws rejects at river sources - https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-43162472
Fair enough, they seem to be better overall than the US, but I’m no expert. I know I wouldn’t consider swimming in my local bay, they still have a lot going for them
they have to be carrying a flashlight wearing their winter parka
It’s definitely not all wine and roses. I’ve heard their rations have been slashed to a single blowjob and massage per day. Really lackadaisical ones, too.
I had two coworkers that expatriated up that way. One loves to death one said fuck this and went to New Zealand.
Personal experiences are personal ;)
False ; Norwegians don’t look at Americans.
Except almost everything they see on the screen is Americans
Fair enough.
The Americans are going to walk up on the street and randomly engage them in conversation
Norwegians when americans just come up and say “How are you?” and they don’t really want to know in detail how we are but just want to be polite:
Sure they do.
Like the rest of the world:
Not the Northern most Americans. They already understand how impactful a small hand wave is.
A hand wave? I’ve been a New Englander all my life. You get a quick glance and half grimace smile if you’re lucky. And that’s pretty much only if we accidentally make eye contact
So I’m functionally invisible if I go there? Tempting
There is 100% a strong culture for minding your own business and not bothering anyone here. By that I mean that approaching someone without having a good reason to do so is very much frowned upon. That doesn’t mean we’re anti-social or complete strangers to small-talk, but there are some rather subtle social cues governing when it’s appropriate to approach someone, and if you just mind your own business and don’t give any indication that you want to chat, there’s a high probability that no one will approach you or talk to you.
So you either successfully do crimes because you’re invisible, or you successfully get put in a Norwegian prison. I’m gonna go check plane ticket prices.
Mainly because Norwegians are pretty tall
What’s going on in Norway? I’m out of the loop.
The Norwegian prison system emphasizes rehabilitation over punishment. Norwegian prisons are generally decent places. Turns out that treating prisoners like human beings makes them much less likely to reoffend and go back to prison.
Turns out that treating prisoners like human beings makes them much less likely to reoffend and go back to prison.
What’s really fascinating is that in Norway this is generally seen as a good thing.
But if they don’t go back to prison, how are private for-profit prison owners supposed to keep collecting easy, lucrative checks from the government?
By moving to 'murica, duh!
I would benefit from some rehab
I was about to make a joke about flying over to Norway and causing issues, but I don’t want to be a jerk.
Could someone in Norway frame me and have me extradited, please?
Unfortunately you’re not the first person to have that thought. And from what little bit of research I did into it it seems that they would much rather just spend the money to buy you a plane ticket and send you home.
Makes sense. I wouldn’t want me around either.
hmm, I wonder why that other country doesn’t do that…
Based on a quick search you could go for one of the stricter non-felony crimes and try to get a short stay. But I’m guessing you would have more sucess asking for asylum based on the border issues in the US these days.
Although there were references to a court statement from a few decades ago, about a not extraditing someone to a US prison because it might be a human rights violation. Which could potentially be brought up again these days with the current situation.
I believe that was due to the US still using the death penalty.
A gilded cage is still a cage. I’d rather work and pay rent and live in a modest apartment than be imprisoned in a luxury hotel that I’m not allowed to leave. Prisoners in Halden prison don’t get to set their own schedule, don’t get to quit being a prisoner and move across the country, don’t get to code with whom they live and associate.
Even with a minimum wage job you can save up enough money for a plane ticket to anywhere in the world and just leave. Or even just a bus ticket across the country to live somewhere else.
Or how about taking your girlfriend/boyfriend out on a date to a nice restaurant? Or rent a cabin in the woods for a weekend and just relax? Or go out to the bar for a few beers with a friend? Or volunteer to spend time with some elderly folks at a nursing home!
Being in prison sucks, no matter how much they dress it up. The vast majority of things you might do are closed off to you just because you can’t leave. Every single one of those prisoners knows they’re being punished. Every single one of them counts the days until their release.
Even with a minimum wage job you can save up enough money for a plane ticket to anywhere in the world and just leave.
If you make minimum wage in the city I live in you either live with your parents, have multiple roomates, or live on the street.
Right, but you don’t have to live in that city. You have the choice to move somewhere else! Prisoners don’t have that choice.
Moving is expensive. If you barely scrape by, this id not an option for the vast majority of these people.
I don’t because I make well above minimum wage but you’re making uprooting your life and moving sound easier than it. It costs thousands of dollars to move to a new city, even more if you don’t have friends or family to stay with until you get established. Good luck setting that much aside when you’re barely surviving.
actually it costs thousands to move by your standards. it costs nothing but the swinging of your two feet to move somewhere else if there are no standards.
this is the point about freedom that ops trying to make.
you think I’m joking? how many people do you think have ever walked from NY to CA?
I’m not saying it’s easy! I’m saying it’s possible.
Having family and family obligations is still your choice. Many people walk away from all that because it’s unbearable to them. A prisoner doesn’t have that option: they’re stuck with whoever their cellmates are, no matter what.
I honestly don’t get all these people downvoting the general sentiment that a prisoner is, in fact, imprisoned. A free person on the other hand, is not.
No one here is denying that being poor or homeless makes it extremely hard to really do anything, that’s not the point. The point is that no matter how poor or homeless a person is, they still retain the freedom of choice regarding what to do when they wake up the next morning.
you sound like you have never lived in true poverty
Is that the poverty only experienced by a true Scotsman?
I’ve never had to live on the street, if that’s what you’re asking. I was raised by a single father. We had as many as 4 roommates at various times, including alcoholics and drug addicts. I’ve had to call the police on some of them. I’ve had to stay at my grandparents’ while my dad drove across the country as a salesman just to pay the bills.
I dropped out of high school at age 16 and only managed to go back and finish in my 30s. I got into university and graduated with a degree, thanks to generous government loans and grants. Now I got my first job post-graduation working in a mail room at age 41.
Was my life easy? No. But I wasn’t living in a slum in central Africa drinking contaminated water and suffering from Guinea worm disease. I think anyone in North America who grew up in a working class home is a long, long way from that kind of poverty.
Why didn’t your father simply move then? What I was trying to say is that being poor isn’t as easy and free as you make it sound. I couldn’t visit any nice place ever when I was at my lowest. In fact I remember being rammed to the ground by police because I couldn’t buy a tram ticket to school and took it illegally anyway. Most days there was nothing I could do other then sit in my flat, sometimes without power or warm water. Eventually I was days away from ending up on the street. I would have welcomed a Norwegian prison cell with open arms and i think your comment downplays the horrors of absolute poverty. Especially considering that in a lot of these fancy prison countries you are actually allowed to leave prison during the day, because they are about reintegration rather then punishment.
My dad moved a lot actually. He lived all over the country. He moved to be close to his parents (my grandparents) who helped raise me.
I’m sorry you experienced the hardships you did. Are you saying you’d rather do a 10 year prison sentence in Norway instead of the poverty you experienced on the street? That’s pretty unfathomable to me.
Anyway, I never said anything about it being “free and easy.” Life is hard. But being in prison is neither free nor easy, even in a fancy Norwegian prison.
I love how everyone just dismisses this idea because it’s hard. Have they never planned a big lofe change before? And then they say that you’re the one who’s out of touch!
If you’re making barely enough to scrape by, but you’ve got a clear plan and destination, you can make it happen. It matters how much you want it.
What does it even take to uproot your life? You need a place to stay when you get there, and a way to pay for it. Those bits aren’t even required. You need food to eat and a way to travel. SNAP is amazing for this.
blah blah i dont care to continue with this comment, just wanted to point out that everyone complaining abouthow hard it is probably has never done it and doesn’t realize how possible it is
Yeah I don’t get it. I’m trying to convince people that it’s better to be free than in prison and they’re not buying it?! What?
I think people create prisons for themselves in their own minds. I’m saying choose the situation you’re in. You’ll be much happier for it! Some people don’t want to be happy though. And they’ll resent you for even suggesting it!
I think so! if it’s someone else’s fault then it’s not my fault, and that’s perhaps a more important freedom for some
Everyone loves to talk about Norwegian welfare as the pinnacle of social policy while conveniently forgetting that it’s a tiny country of 5.5 million people backed by a trillion dollars of oil money from the state.
Edit: I love how everyone glosses over the population size as if it has nothing to do with policy making and the politically stagnant environment of the US.
Someone else posted total inmate numbers from 2022 and it was less that 4,000. Out of 5.5 million people, that’s doing really well compared to the U.S.
Here’s a small comparison. Oklahoma has a population less than 5 million. Yet their prison inmate population is over 20 thousand. And if you look at all the states, it’s a similar story. Especially in “red states”.
Okay, you edited your comment, so then let me add another one
The US and Norway have roughly equivalent GDP per capita. Norway is also a very rugged country with tons of mountainous terrain. It’s pretty much the worst case scenario for land infrastructure development. It having a small population also makes it a greater challenge for finding workers. More people is better economically speaking
The US doesn’t really have any excuse here
Sweden and Denmark are very similar. You don’t need oil/gas to make it possible
- Healthcare $200
- Data $150
- Infrastructure $800
- Military industrial complex $3,600,000,000
- Culture war $150
someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my country is dying-
That MIC budget is too small by at least 2 zeros if not 3
Military industrial complex $3,600,000,000
There’s a whole lot of corruption packed into this number.
Seventh Audit Failed.
And as we all know, the US doesn’t have any oil itself!
No, but, the oil fund isn’t really used. For reference, the first withdrawal in history was in 2016. The prison system is far older than that
It’s also comparably equal.
If US wealth was equally distributed, every person would own about 450.000$
That would make like 20 people lose a lot of money.
yay
Oh no… god forgive us for wishing such horrible and wretched things upon your wealthiest mistakes…
Temporarily
A good example is to see what Varg Vikernes were doing while in prison:
Burzum remained as a solo project until 1994, when Vikernes was arrested for the murder of Euronymous and the burnings of several churches in Norway. […] While imprisoned, Vikernes managed to record two other albums in a dark ambient style. They were released as Dauði Baldrs (1997) and Hliðskjálf (1999). Both of these albums were created with a synthesizer, as Vikernes was prohibited from using any other instruments in prison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum#Imprisonment_(1993–2009)
The mass murdering child killer Breivik sued the government because he was only offered a Playstation 2, not the Playstation 3. And did not enjoy the pets he was allowed. 🤷
That’s the guy who shot up the teen summer camp island? They let him have a PS2?
