And of course they had to shoehorn some AI bullshit in it

(why I installed this driver: because i can remap the two extra buttons as copy/paste)

  • linrilang@lemmy.worldEnglish
    65·
    7 days ago

    We detected you moved your mouse. Downloading 1GB of AI telemetry and 3GB of user experience optimizations…

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
    542·
    7 days ago

    Fuck electron, fuck “web first” apps, fuck the “all application in the future will be websites” mentality.

    • Gonzako@lemmy.worldEnglish
      122·
      7 days ago

      Man, they really developed the most unfun layout system and then tried to force it to everyone

      • hornywarthogfart@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        4·
        6 days ago

        I get what you are saying and this is definitely a factor but I think the bigger influencer was mobile adoption. As soon as smartphones took off it was inevitable that we would see a surge in cross platform frameworks/libraries.

        The fact we tackled this problem by shifting everything to web apps was also inevitable given the more simplistic deployment requirements and maintenance costs of a website vs native application.

        I feel like I am shouting to the void when I talk about performance of modern software being unbelievably bad.

        • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
          2·
          6 days ago

          Yeah, I can see how it ended up like that, and it would at least be nice if Windows accepted that and had one copy of the browser rather than every app installing it’s own just in case of breaking changes.

          And it would also be really nice if it only clogged the system for when it needs to show a UI, but I’ve got a ton of background processes that are also running a browser just in case today is the day that I finally need to see them. Just looking down task manager now at some suspect large processes, I can see a Razer “mouse driver”, Epic, Discord, Steam, Nvidia, Oculus, NordVPN, Signal…

          None of these things need to be running a browser while I’m not looking at them.

          But hey, lets throw another 32GB of RAM in there, and another dozen cores, and maybe we can achieve the dream of running each of them all in their own fucking operating system as well…

          • hornywarthogfart@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            5 days ago

            Yeah and unfortunately it’s going to get worse when AI agents are also always running in the background (which is inevitable, let’s be honest).

      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        6 days ago

        Proton proves that you don’t need to run on a web browser for cross platform compatibility. Turing-complete platforms are equivalent in their capabilities, it’s just a matter of adding a translation layer that doesn’t need to be as heavy as a browser DOM (at least for going between windows and Linux on x64).

        • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
          2·
          5 days ago

          I’m not 100% convinced that an emulation layer isn’t as heavy as a browser.

          We had things like Java and QT, and none of it really took off. Apple is probably to blame here as well, for wanting everything to be native to iOS and ignoring the reality that developers don’t want to make five different versions of their software.

          • Buddahriffic@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            3 days ago

            It’s generally not as heavy because the layer is just reinterpreting API calls while the user code still runs natively. On a browser running JavaScript, it’s using an interpreter for every line of code. Depending on the specifics, it could be doing string processing for each operation, though it probably only does the string processing once and converts the code into something it can work with faster.

            Like if you want to add two variables, a compiled program would do it in about 4 cpu instructions, assuming it needed to be loaded from memory and saved back to memory. Or maybe 7 if everything had a layer of indirection (eg pointers).

            A scripting language needs to parse the statement (which alone will take on the order of dozens of cpu instructions, if not hundreds), then look up the variables in a map, which can be fast but not as fast as a memory load or two, then do the add, and store the result with another map lookup. Not to mention all of the type stuff being handled at run time, like figuring out what the variables are and what an add of those types even means, plus any necessary conversions. I understand that JavaScript can be compiled and that TypeScript is a thing, but the compiled code still needs to reproduce all of the same behaviour the scripting language does, so generic functions can still be more complex to handle calling and return conventions and making sure they work on all possible types that can be provided. And if they are using eval statements (or whatever it is to process dynamically generated code), then it’s back to string processing.

            Plus the UI itself is all html and css, and the JavaScript interacts with it as such, limiting optimizations that would convert it into another format for faster processing. The GPU doesn’t render HTML and CSS directly; it all needs to be processed for each update.

            For D3D to Vulkan, the GPU handles the repetitive work while any data that needs to be converted only needs to happen once per pass through the API (eg at load time).

            That browser render stuff can all be done pretty quickly on today’s hardware, so it’s generally usable, but native stuff is still orders of magnitude faster and the way proton works is much closer to native than a browser.

            • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
              2·
              3 days ago

              Going to be quite a bit heavier than that if you run it on a different CPU architecture though. And even if you’re not running on mobile, Apple still opened that can of worms a few years back. Linux too, I guess.

              Honestly, I don’t mind HTML for a UI. It resizes nicely to fit a large number of devices. It looks pretty much the same no matter what you’re running it on. But it should just be that, a UI layer. Otherwise the solution you were looking for was a website, and not a dozen 500MB chunks of Chrome installed around my PC.

    • veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.worldEnglish
      19·
      6 days ago

      The Internet is so bloated because every page is bursting with telemetry and spa framework bullshit that over engineers a fucking music recital site.

  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zipEnglish
    27·
    7 days ago

    That’s not the driver but some bundled configuration & update bloatware.

    Back in my days, you had to overwrite some .exe with a “0” to disable Nvidia from spying on you. The overwrite, because they would just download it again if you deleted the .exe.

    • Treczoks@lemmy.worldEnglish
      26·
      7 days ago

      I remember installing a fresh PC with win98. During installation, I disabled some windows bloatware (Imagine! You actually could do this!), and ended up with an unresponsive, non-windows app blocking the system. I killed that app and removed it from the system. Keep in mind that at this point, no network connection was set up, nor did I install any driver or program yet, this was straight from the windows install medium.

      After reboot, the app was back, and again blocking the system.

      Wiping the harddisk and starting installation over did not help either.

      Turned out this was some bloatware installed by the BIOS whenever it detected at boot that there was a) a Windows installation that was b) “missing” their “register your PC with us” app. This needed some Windows bloatware to work, and thus failed on this machine.

      This was the only time I angrily screamed at a hotline worker.

  • AlteredEgo@lemmy.mlEnglish
    22·
    7 days ago

    +1 for using space sniffer. It’s the best of such apps I’ve found. Unfortunately doesn’t seem to get updated any more.

    • Limonene@lemmy.worldEnglish
      65·
      7 days ago

      Piper is less than 2MB, and allows reconfiguring Logitech mouse buttons. It’s available in Debian and Ubuntu package managers.

      Screenshot:

      I had to use Piper to get exotic features like having mouse 6, 7, 8 buttons function as mouse 6, 7, 8, rather than the default of alt-tab and ctrl-v.

      • AeonFelis@lemmy.worldEnglish
        14·
        6 days ago

        This is not a driver. The README itself says:

        Piper is merely a graphical frontend to the ratbagd DBus daemon

        ratbagd itself, BTW, is also not a driver.

        The unofficial open source license is called logiops, and according to the Debian site most of its builds are also under 2MB (and the two builds that aren’t are only slightly bigger)

        There is also RatSlap, which I can’t find information on how big it is (and I’m not going to bother installing it just to find out)

      • Zink@programming.devEnglish
        5·
        7 days ago

        I never thought to look for something like this, but it looks fantastic so i’m going to try it. Thanks!

      • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
        2·
        7 days ago

        Does it still allow macros? I have a couple of 502s and my older one has fallen victim to the common problem of rhe switch getting bouncey so one click becomes multiple. Supposedly macros can fix this.

        • cacti@ani.socialEnglish
          5·
          7 days ago

          If your mouse drivers allow setting the debounce timer, you can set it higher so that your system doesn’t allow the bouncing to register.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          6 days ago

          I’m never buying another Logitech device again because that problem that happened with my G7 back in the 00s still happened with my G900 in the 20s.

          With my G7, I’d open it up when it started happening, and open up the switch to re-bend the metal piece to give it some spring back. Kept doing this until one day the plastic button that presses down on that metal part fell on carpet and was gone forever.

          With my G900, I said fuck it and just bought some better mouse button switches and replaced the left mouse button. Was actually kinda glad I needed to because the battery had become a danger pillow so I replaced that, too.

          But with the button issue existing for so long and being fixed by a part that cost a trivial amount compared to what I paid in the first place, you can’t convince me that Logitech isn’t deliberately using switches that fail quickly to drive up demand for mice.

        • Sabata@ani.socialEnglish
          1·
          6 days ago

          My 903 did that, and so did the one they replaced and now your making me worry about my 502. It’s shitty switches so a macro would hide it for a little at best. I tried to replace them but these are not fun to open up.

        • michaelmrose@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          7 days ago

          This is a physical defect. Macros make one key press effect one or more action button or key press. For instance if a common operation involves pressing a b and c in sequence you can make one button on your mouse actuate that sequence.

          You can’t bind a macro to left click because then you can’t left click anymore. Even if you bound double clicking to single click (if this is even possible) it would mean every time it single click you would effect nothing which is equally if not more broken.

          You need to either take your mouse apart and fix it or throw it in the trash.

            • michaelmrose@lemmy.worldEnglish
              12·
              6 days ago

              Its broken fix or toss this solution isn’t applicable directly. Also seems like it would be hard to intentionally double click and add latency to single clicks

              • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
                1·
                6 days ago

                Go tell the authors of that article then, I very clearly said I was only using it as an example.of what I meant by fixing it with macros and not saying it’s a solution I’ve looked into. 🙄

          • cacti@ani.socialEnglish
            3·
            7 days ago

            I think he meant as in “if this is the first ever GTK application you install via flatpak”. The “Installed Size” on Flathub only indicates the amount of storage the program itself will take up and doesn’t take into account the libraries it will install alongside it (installing piper via flatpak takes up 400MB on my device).

            I still think it is really negligible because people usually don’t install applications that use such a variety of different graphical frameworks, and also because modern PC disk capacities are so absurdly big compared to past ones. I only have a 256GB drive and have never faced any issues regarding how much storage flatpak apps use.

            • michaelmrose@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              4 days ago

              I have flatpaks installed but not org.gnome.* note not first gtk app the first that require gnome runtimes. Then once you have a bunch of apps you’ll end up with different versions needing different runtimes which will need constant updates of the same 1G. Given modern connectivity and storage it isn’t that burdensome in truth but neither is the Windows example.

              It’s just humorous to crow over one and ignore the other.

  • Shanmugha@lemmy.worldEnglish
    9·
    6 days ago

    Saving this to share at work. What an abomination that, I am sorry you have to deal with it

    • herrvogel@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      7 days ago

      Nvidia drivers at least do something that are fairly complex and heavy, and they’re necessary. Whereas this thing is just some comically overdeveloped and extremely annoying piece of bloatware from Logitech to remap a bunch of buttons.

  • KestrelAlex@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    6 days ago

    X mouse button control

    It can’t detect some of the fancier buttons and gestures but it can often pickup buttons 4 and 5 for remapping, and it does chording and long press options to give you multiple functions without any AI bullshit.

  • ØR10N5B3LT@midwest.socialEnglish
    2071·
    8 days ago

    maybe this will help, if you wanted to ditch the logi driver:

    https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar

    Solaar is a Linux manager for many Logitech keyboards, mice, and other devices that connect wirelessly to a Unifying, Bolt, Lightspeed or Nano receiver as well as many Logitech devices that connect via a USB cable or Bluetooth. Solaar is not a device driver and responds only to special messages from devices that are otherwise ignored by the Linux input system.

    • ☂️-@lemmy.mlEnglish
      3·
      7 days ago

      piper is also great. openrgb works too if all you want is to change led colors.

    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.worldEnglish
      161·
      7 days ago

      I hope one day theres something similar to this, but for 8bitdo.

      I have an 8bitdo keyboard, and in order to map my buttons, I need to boot up a windows 10 hard drive, do my one time edits, save them to the keyboard, and THEN I can turn off the pc, swap back to my ZorinOS hard drive, and THEN I can go about as normal.

      And if for some reason somethings wrong, or didn’t take, I’d have to repeat the whole process all over again.

      All because the keyboard manager doesn’t work on linux. But it’s not logitech.

      • dubyakay@lemmy.caEnglish
        211·
        7 days ago

        Sell the 8bitdo keyboard and buy one instead that is capable of running with QMK or ZMK firmware and is configurable by either VIA or VIAL.

        • Da Bald Eagul@feddit.nlEnglish
          4·
          7 days ago

          Wooting keyboards are also really nice, and are configured through a web interface. It’s also a Dutch company, so if you want to buy European it’s definitely a good choice :)

          • clif@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            6 days ago

            A web interface? Is the keyboard running a webserver or is it remotely managed by the manufacturers website?

            I’m confused about configuring keyboards via web app.

            • Da Bald Eagul@feddit.nlEnglish
              1·
              6 days ago

              Nah just a website you navigate to and then it communicates over USB. There’s a desktop app too but it’s just an electron wrapper.

          • dubyakay@lemmy.caEnglish
            15·
            7 days ago

            QMK and ZMK are FOSS firmwares that can run on Atmel AVR and ARM chips like the RP2040.

            VIA or VIAL are config utilities that you can use to remap your keyboard on the fly.

          • Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            10·
            7 days ago

            I’m going to assume these are open source apps because for some reason that’s how those guys like to name stuff.

      • ogeist@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6·
        7 days ago

        I have a Flydigi gamepad and I can use a virtual machine with tiny11 to change the configuration. The connection isn’t super stable but for the few times I have to do it, it works.

  • hperrin@lemmy.caEnglish
    771·
    7 days ago

    The driver for your mouse occupies a few kilobytes. The shitty app and AI garbage bloatware occupies the rest.