I’m gay. I’m agender, and I like enbies better than men and women.
The other day in an argument I got frustrated with someone and told them to call me a homophobic slur. One part sarcasm, one part hoping they’d actually do it and get in trouble. Instead, I got punished for using the word. I wasn’t expecting that, because I’m gay. If I call myself a f-----, I didn’t think that was anyone else’s problem.
Was I right? Is it okay for me to use that word, talking about myself?
Honestly, I have strong suspicions about how dumb and cliquey that space was. Normal people understand context and give each other leeway.
I’m oppressed AND can’t use my OWN TERM!? This place is a prison.
The Homophobic Slurs would be a great band name.
you can do what you want. Personally it hurts me to hear the f-slur due to a lot of trauma, regardless of context. But I’m a big boy who can deal with it, but useful context for you to consider
I’ve noticed some of my gay friends try to “reclaim” slurs while others treat the words as taboo. Seems like a matter of personal preference to me.
You can reclaim slurs. Of course, ability to read the room is very useful, because in some settings using slurs, even if you’re referring to yourself, isn’t considered acceptable, like you don’t swear if you’re talking to kids or having dinner with your granparents.
Well, your not supposed to, but tell that to my mouth.
I, personally, have no issue with being gay, agender, or affectionately or sarcastically referring to oneself as a faggot, but none of that is relevant to the particular usage that got you in trouble.
You weren’t talking about yourself. You tried to bait another party into using hate speech to escalate a dispute. You wanted to weaponize a slur to play the victim and get someone else in trouble. And you did so in a public place where your behavior caused offense to bystanders.
Agreed. Call yourself whatever you want.
I consider this:
One part sarcasm, one part hoping they’d actually do it and get in trouble.
as underhanded and immature. What kind of argument were you having?
I was arguing with someone who was telling me it’s okay to use slurs
TL;DR - Day’s end you can call yourself whatever you want. It would be a problem calling them that when they don’t like being called that. But also don’t tell somebody else to call you that in hopes they’ll get in shit.
You were hoping they’d get in shit for using the word, so your motives in that instance weren’t exactly pure. Maybe reflect on that part. It’s still weaponising the word.
Generally speaking though, to me it’s no different than a woman going up to her group of girl friends and saying '‘Sup bitches!!!’, or Black people using the n-word amongst each other, or Roma people using g–sy amongst themselves. If a gay person wants to call themself a f-----, have at it!
I had a thing with some girl friends where we’d volley ‘slut’, ‘whore’, ‘harlot’, etc. at each other. We’d also try to get as ridiculous as possible with it the names. A random person shouting those names at us would be a bad thing, but the context and rapport we had with each other changed that in those cases. It’s also something I wouldn’t do with people I didn’t really know regardless of gender since we don’t have that background with each other.
I’m part Portuguese and if somebody wants to call me a pork chop I’m like, ‘Damn straight!’ and I’ll sometimes call myself that too. But I won’t call my cousin’s cousin that because he doesn’t like being called that and that’s fine.
EDITED TO FIX FORMATTING… (still getting used to things on this platform, lol)
Me and the bf say “those are bedroom words”
Partly in jest, but while some could argue the slurs have been somewhat reclaimed, some people are understandably bothered by them being used casually and might have traumas about them being used against them. Soo I avoid using it without knowing how my current company feels about it.
Sure, it’s “ok” in that I don’t think you should go to jail for it.
But you need to be “ok” with the consequences. Like how many people would be turned off by your language and would not want to associate with you. Who would judge you as a high-drama person to avoid (this is where I am personally, given your description of using a slur to try to bait someone into trouble). And people like school administrators who would remove you for breaking their specific rules on speech (or mods on a forum). And the employer who would fire you for using what is generally seen as unprofessional language.
I personally wouldn’t. I’ve had a Black teacher telling Black classmates in my class to not use the N word, not even the variant ending in “-a”.
As a Chinese American, I would not use these slurs to refer to myself nor any of my fellow Asian Americans.
I mean it’s your choice, in real life you have free speech in many jursidictions, so its not illegal, but like I just don’t agree with the idea of reclaiming slurs and other gay people might get offended at that use.
To me, if someone used those words, its internalized hatred towards their race/sexuality.
I would say no. If you think its an offensive word then why use it?
Slur reclamation exists
generally reclamation is framed as positive usage only. I just learned about this recently myself with the word bitch. Calling my girl friends bitches in a nice way, when i’m not angry and mean it to be endearing is reclamation.
Calling another woman (like jk rowling) a bitch when i don’t like her or her actions is misogynistic even though i’m a woman, because it’s being used to tear down/degrade.
I think the same logic applies to this, a gay man calling his friends the f slur endearingly is fine, but using it hatefully is no different than a straight person doing it.
Not everyone agrees with it.
I was arguing with a tankie who was defending the use of an ableist slur. I told them fine, whatever, call me a f-----. I was making a point about how they would call mentally ill people slurs, but wouldn’t do the same to me. Implying I thought they were a bigot, and they’d attack me too if there were as few consequences. They weren’t a good person, they were just being civil according to social norms. I don’t care about civility, I care about meaning what you say. Practicing what you preach. F----- is how I feel tankies see me, on a certain level. Stalin said being gay is bourgeois decadence. He put us in gulags. I don’t feel safe around Stalin worshippers, and when they attack other minorities, I feel aware of that. I see how their respect is an act.
I’d rather be called a f----- than have them insist they’re my allies. And it took a lot of self control just now to delete those five letters and turn them into dashes. I want to talk openly about how I feel seen by those people. This pretense, not using the words that match how I feel I’m seen, it feels like the same thing. Having to practice civility around people who would lynch me if Dear Leader told them to. I’d prefer slurs.
I think there are two conflicting strategies at play here.
First is common decency. You just don’t say things that might offend people. All in all, a great strategy for everyday use.
But there’s also when a group “takes back” their slurs and starts using them in a friendly way. They are essentially taking power away from those words. Maliciously calling someone a particular slur doesn’t hurt so much when they call each other that every day. It’s a good technique to disarm those who hate you.
But, then you have group A trying not to say these words and group B trying to “flood the market and reduce it’s value” it creates a line of division. YOU can’t say this word, but WE will, because we’re trying to popularize and neuter it.
Neither is doing anything wrong, it’s just two groups with the same goal, (no more hurtful slurs) but they are pushing against each other.
But there’s also when a group “takes back” their slurs and starts using them in a friendly way. They are essentially taking power away from those words. Maliciously calling someone a particular slur doesn’t hurt so much when they call each other that every day. It’s a good technique to disarm those who hate you.
I don’t think it really “takes power” away from those words. Take the N word for example, the “Hard-R” variant of a word uttured by a racist white man is still hurtful.
For sure, any words coming from hate will be hurtful.
As far as the effectiveness of the taking it back system, 🤷🏻♂️ Not my place to have an opinion on that. If the affected people want to do that, I support them. If they don’t agree, I support that too.
For you personally to use that word to describe or allude to yourself and only yourself seems like something thats totally your call.
I do have to say though that encouraging someone else to use a word that is (or was once) a slur - especially if they are not gay themselves and therefore cannot possibly be reclaiming it - feels like a regressive and fairly crappy thing to do (assuming that they are straight).
Between you and your friends, I don’t have a problem with it.
In a controlled setting like a school (I’m guessing) then hard no. If you use those words then the bigots will say to authority, “but u/Genius said it!” and that’s a whole can of worms the administration doesn’t want to open.
In the scenario given, this is my opinion as well. OP described the situation as one where there is some authority and code of conduct over their behavior there, so that needs to apply to everyone.
Also by OP’s own words, they were specifically trying to antagonize someone to get them in trouble, which would probably be pretty transparent to someone observing the interaction.
In a more general sense, I can see some empowerment of words only you and your group can use, but at the same time, I don’t know how one can say they’re reclaimed if other outside people using them would still be hurtful or inappropriate.
I’m straight and white, but my best friends are gay, and my work buddies are all non-white. I have no desire to use any derogatory word, around them or not, because I’d be pissed if anyone would call them those things, so I still see them as insults.
My gay friends don’t often use those words around me at least, and I don’t think ever in reference to themselves. If they would, that would be their choice, but I’d still not really be thrilled hearing those words used in reference to them. They’re my favorite people in the world, next to my SO and my brother.
With my work friends, one is black and the other Hispanic. They both use the N word around me freely and with no animosity. I am not used to Hispanic people using that word in reference to themselves, and that took some real getting used to. The black coworker has never acted bothered by it, and they’re not one to shy away from expressing displeasure, so I let them do their thing. Again, it wouldn’t be my choice of words for them to refer to themselves, but that’s their call. They know (for the most part) not to talk like that in more public settings though.
So while it’s not really my business, I’d prefer people not to do it, especially if it is in a provoking manner like OP’s situation because I feel it’s not respectful or self-respectful, and especially if I was a boss or someone in authority over the environment, I think a near zero tolerance approach in appropriate, since while you may be cool with it, it’s a leader’s responsibility to make everyone feel accommodated.
