I don’t generally have a problem with anti-cheat mechanisms except when they require things like secure-boot or allowing me to do what I want with my machine.
They’re all proprietary, wouldn’t want that crap on my system anyway. (I don’t game anymore)
I used to “cheat” in Mass Effect 3 CooP, using cheat engine to buy those weapon/character crates en masse.
Screw that grind. It was such a sublime MP game EA bolted the absolute stupidest loot box system to. Everyone in the platinum tiers did it; it didn’t hurt anyone’s experience. That game was so good everyone played for the sake of the game anyway, not the trickle of unlocks.
As a side “cheat”, I used to host modded public lobbies with crazy mixes of enemies, like all banshees one wave or “ranger” swarms of scions+ravagers another and such. A few players left, but the most common reaction was “holy shit, this is mad” and players stayed for the fun.
…I guess what I’m saying is, screw malicious cheaters.
But I also don’t like the idea of locking out modding either, or enforcing particularly asinine P2P schemes. I suppose the kind of MP games even conducive to modding don’t really exist anymore though :(
I mean they do try to lock down the client, but the thing is the majority of anger comes at cheaters in games that are designed to have players compete against another, like CounterStrike, The Finals, RUST, COD, Battlefield, etc…
Community servers and co-op games that don’t have the same structure usually have less problems with that sort of thing. I haven’t played Mass Effect 3, but if it’s a co-op game I’d imagine players would be more okay with it (especially if you explained what you’re doing) compared to something like a CS2 competitive match.
(Also some games like RUST make a clear distinction between official, community, and Modded Servers, and allow the host to pick their own rules. You could find a modded or community server that allows that sort of behavior, for instance.)
Edit: also, there are games with intentional modding implementations for co-op and server multiplayer play, like Project Zomboid.
Wonder if they are setting up a DeadLock reveal soon and wanted to make sure no one can cheat on it
Cackling. Cheaters can eat sand. l
til there’s a cheat economy. Had no idea
It’s a multi billion dollar global industry. Lol
LETSGOOOOOO CS2 VIABLE AGAAAIN
I knew it that last cs2 game I was playing had a cheater… always losing every game I’ve played
Btw, tools like Autohotkey, xdotool, don’t work on them?
I just wish the anti cheat on Warzone was just as good…
Does anyone have proof that this is less/more effective than kernel level anti cheat?
Please provide factual evidence, not hearsay. That’s % cheaters detected vs % cheaters not detected scaled by the overall player base.
Nobody can have proof of that, because no such proof can ever exist. How would you ever have a proven correct number of cheaters not detected?
So what’s the point of an anti cheat then if you don’t know how many people are cheating, how many people are not, and you don’t have confidence that the anti cheat is 99% effective at the very least?
It can be tested in closed systems but it’s not something you can easily define the success rate of because the cheats are constantly evolving and game updates close or introduce vulnerabilities.
There is still value of having an anti-cheat even if it does not have a high chance of catching cheaters, so long as it keeps false positives to a minimum.
“there is still value of having an anti cheat even though it does not have a high chance of catch cheaters”
That doesn’t make any sense. LOL. What’s the value then of the anti cheat?
You can die in a car accident, even if you wear a seat belt.
LOL what’s the value of a seatbelt? You’re either very dull or a troll. Maybe both.
That’s a car not a video game. You don’t need to insult me you dimwit. Apples and oranges.
You failed to understand the parallel between my example and the topic at hand, so I’m proud to announce that you’ve passed the idiot test with flying colors!
Pro tip: apples and oranges can be compared and contrasted. They have a large variety of similarities and differences.
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Doesn’t matter. I will not install a rootkit
No factual evidence provided.
There is evidence kernel level anti cheat can still be bypassed.
Please provide proof that games with kernel level anti cheat have the same rate of cheating as games without it.
A game blocks cheats or it doesn’t. Valorant certainly still has cheaters. Only cheat providers and gaming companies will have those numbers and I’m not sure they are going to release them.
Thanks for letting me know. So we don’t have any proof at all that these anti cheats are effective? I’m not even saying which anti cheat. Just saying in general.
Depends on your definition of effective. Both are still certainly too much. I haven’t seen one that’s 100% effective.
What do you mean definition of effective lmfao. An anti cheat should stop cheaters. If I go on counter strike and I find a cheater then that anti cheat is ineffective. If I go on valorant and don’t find a cheater that is effective. It’s not that complicated.
Then I’d argue there isn’t an effective anti cheat. Valorant definitely has cheaters.
Please provide factual evidence, not hearsay. That’s % cheaters detected vs % cheaters not detected scaled by the overall player base.
Yeah good luck providing such evidence for any kind of game or anti-cheat.
Personally, I hate kernel level ac and it made me actually stop playing few games and avoid similar ones. Had enough of mere games screwing up with my PC through EAC and EAC ignoring my reports for years.
Counter Strike 2 has a massive problem with cheaters because Valve refuse to make VAC operate at the kernel level.
You want Americans at your kernel? I don’t.
There is so much wrong with what you said.
First, kernel anticheats absolutely get bypassed. Second, kernel anti cheats are only a Windows things, and potentially not for long. (Not that they couldn’t be.) Valve makes games for Windows and Linux.
Ring0 crap, is one of the most insecure and potentially dangerous pieces of code you can willingly install on your machine. You’re trusting a company, to have more access to your machine than you do. Software you don’t get to see the change log, or know what it’s doing. And you’re really banking that the people who are writing this code know what they’re doing. Any especially now with the influx of AI, You’re really hoping that the access you’re giving them to your machine wasn’t ‘vibe coded’ (honestly you probably was). And when they mess up, and trust me they will, they wreck havoc on your install. See crowdstrike.
Everyone with eyes knows that it doesnt work anyway
I really hope valve can get VAC into a good space so it can be an example of doing anti-cheat well without having to be a rootkit. Looks like we’re heading towards that point. Hopefully this change will last
John Macdonald is cooking the best fucking server-sided anticheat with all that compute power in Bellevue. Lets see him become a master chef!
I’ve been thinking for a while we need more server side stuff. No worries about infringing on the consumers computer then. Hopefully that ends up becoming something good!
and they need it for the steam deck too. win-win.
I wonder if that is actually their long-term goal. I feel like anti-cheats are like the last obstacle for Linux gaming where some highly popular games are straight-up unplayable on Linux; with how much stake Valve has in the success of Linux gaming (Steam Deck duh) maybe they want to make it so that eventually all games with anti-cheats can run on Linux
I mean, to me, this is amazingly obviously the goal.
Games run better ~5% fps better now on Linux (when using a distro configured for gaming) than they do on Windows.
As you say, last technical obstacle is kernel AC rootkits.
Solve that, anyone still gaming on Windows is a MSFT fanboy, afraid of change, whatever.
But they have very little actual solid reason to remain on Windows.
Start getting people outta Windows for home PCs, it becomes basically just a shitty corpo OS.
Rather, not OS… but ecosystem.
I’d actually imagine for non-Microsoft properties, they would have all the more reason to run away from Windows to linux as soon as the anticheat issue is resolved.
I’d imagine they would come to the same conclusion that Gaben had with Win8: Relying on Microsoft “never restricting” the installation of software outside of the windows/Xbox store in the future is a huge gamble. Better to avoid the risk entirely.
Right I used to think Android would be smart enough to maintain the illusion of an open platform alternative to Apple that doesn’t restrict users as heavily, but even Android is moving towards a locked down platform that doesn’t let users sideload apps or install alternative OS, if this succeeds then I’m quite sure Microsoft will follow suit the greedy fucks that they are. We need more alternative phone companies and easier ways to make cross platform apps that can run on non Apple and Android phones easily
I’ve often thought that the cheaters should be simply shadow banned, and only match with other cheaters. Let them play against the other cheaters and see how well they do.
Cheaters also are part of why I like coop games so much more. Join a random game with a cheater, doesn’t matter too much and you can leave. Play with a group of friends and that also goes a long way to eliminating them.
GTA Online does (did?) this, most cheating wouldn’t get you banned and instead just placed in cheater lobbies.
Rockstar botched that system, I can attest as I used numerous different mod menus on GTA V Online, most well developed menus will let you alter yours (and others) in-game reputation by spamming the commend/report functions.
Spawning in UFO’s an such was the highlight of GTA V Online for me, haven’t touched the game since I moved to Linux, I hear it’s broken due to the new anti-cheat.
I’m glad I wouldn’t play GTA anyway, even older games, for different reasons.
What reasons wouldn’t you play older ones?
GTA is a disgusting franchise, and the content in the games is just awful. Maybe the stories are good, but do you really need to insert heavy esex and substance use into a game like that? That’s called desensitization, and I’m sensitive to quite a few things (not this fake sensitivity that’s floating around… legit sensitivity).
So that’s why you don’t play GTA. I don’t agree, but you do you.
To get back on topic, why don’t you play older games as you said. That’s specifically what the other user asked.
Maybe I should’ve clarified something, as the older games were included due to the fact that GTA’s writing, content and mechanics were just disgusting. On top of that, I wouldn’t do any of that stuff in real life, let alone in something like GTA.
GTA is a disgusting franchise
Because of this nobody noticed how woke GTA:SA was. If you depicted the CIA smuggling cocaine and weapons into black communities while the justice system imprisons young black men with wildly disparate sentencing 2025, the game would be canceled, by the kind of chuds who just see “cool violence!”
San Andreas was the wokest of them all, but GTA V is pretty woke too. Your main enemies are three letter agencies, the in-universe equivalent of Blackwater/Academi/XE (legit their GTA name has been consistent for longer than their real names at this point, might as well call them real life Merriweather) and you pull a hit on an asshole tech CEO, a tobacco company CEO, etc. But then, GTA V has also been out for over a decade now.
I hope they keep the theme going with the next one. Show it all as a bunch of “cool violence” while beneath the surface it’s critique of consumerism, government overreach and society in general.
It’s escapism. If it’s not for you, that’s fine.
heavy s-x and substance use
Did you just self-censor the word “sex”?
Bruh.
I pulled an Am I The Genius? here, which explains it. I might have to modify that a bit, since I don’t remember how they did it.
AFAIK why not add a mod that removes these things
That stuff is hard-coded into the game, and would potentially be impossible to remove.
They made it much easier to setup private lobbies for friends and crew. Haven’t played in public lobbies in years.
While private lobbies certainly help weed out the bullshit, if a modder was determined enough they could copy your Rockstar ID and use that to follow you from lobby to lobby regardless of its privacy restrictions.
Logging someones Rockstar ID might as well make them your friend, depending on the mod menu they could receive notifications on when you’re online/offline.
Here is a common mod menu that was popular prior to the anti-cheat update, I think they have shutdown now.
From what you’re saying, it sounds like you have to be in a public lobby first, then hop into private for them to get your id. Can they get your id without ever being in the lobby or any contact at all? Currently you can just go into single player and start a private lobby. Idk how the enhanced edition does, I’m assuming it’s the same. I haven’t played in a couple years, so getting into a private lobby might have changed.
it sounds like you have to be in a public lobby first, then hop into private for them to get your id. Can they get your id without ever being in the lobby or any contact at all?
This is not true, if you knew a persons social-club username you could search for the ID associated with it. I can’t find many tools online except for this one no idea of this works or not, I’m sure there are guides to obtain R*ID’s elsewhere.
That’s very concerning. It’s wild it even exist.
I always thought there should be an “unlimited class” in the olympics where you can take anything you want. I want to see wildly drugged up athletes competing with each other.
I always thought professional sports games don’t have enough good ol’ gladiatorial bloodshed. If youre getting paid tens of millions per year for sports you damn well better be doing more than moving an object around.
Look, all im saying is any sports game can be made more watchable by giving players a side-armed melee wepon and allowed one swing per play iteration with no redcards. Put back in some selective pressure to turn those middle aged pudgy players and coaches into real athletes and tacticians.
Caaaaaarl, that kills people.
Don’t worry, you can still be buried with the medal if you win
That’s just the regular Olympics.
According to D’Souza, he created the Games because he believes that athletes are entitled to do what they wish with their own bodies
If that’s been agreed upon as the ruleset for their competitions, I agree
and that the International Olympic Committee (IOC) is corrupt and not paying them enough.
Also agree, it’s the individual countries that usually pay their athletes to athlete and uh… Yeah, they get sponsors for a reason, don’t they. I know a few people who’ve competed at several olympic games and just being top 10 or something in the world in your sport doesn’t exactly get you swimming in money.
“And now the athletes are at the starting line for the hundred meter ketamine stagger. . . They’re waiting for the starters’ gun. . . Some of them have got confused and wandered off. . .”
"Oh, it looks Swerving Dan had a heart attack when the starting pistol went off!
That’s going to hurt his chances, Jim."
I think Valve should have only recorded which players were cheating for a few weeks, then ban them all at once. Would avoid them disabling cheats now they know and would also make it more difficult to figure out what exactly is VAC detecting.
I’d love to play matches with aimbots.
I’m not good at games. Don’t care enough to git gud. Certainly wouldn’t ruin anyone’s experience by cheating. But it’d be fun to see what the game is like with everyone having perfect aim.
Cheaters aren’t only aimbots. In fact, most of the time they’re not even using aimbot because that’s one of the easiest one to tell that someone is cheating. Most of the time they can just see everyone through walls. But if it’s cheater vs cheater and they don’t care about being caught then it’s not fun or interesting because you just use aim + speed + noclip (I assume that’s possible) and just kill everyone the second the round starts.
Yeah…that’s why I said “aimbots”.
And they did it without installing root kits on our computers.
Exactly
Ha! Get fucked, losers. Cheaters ruin the fun for everyone, so I hope every last one gets permabanned.
You cannot permaban a cheater for the saame reason you shouldn’t have death penalty, people need to be able to challenge the decision which should trigger a process
As a piece of software, I highly doubt there isn’t a single bug in VAC that would cause a false-positive
When you suspect someone of being highly dangerous you put them in jail even if they are not convicted yet. And when it turns out they are innocent they are released.
A ban is like jail not like a death sentence …
More like getting kicked out of a club, you can still go to other clubs.
And you can contest the ban and potentially get it lifted and return to the same game.
Not a bad analogy, but there is a major problem with pre-trial detention being abused in the US, leaving people in jail for years at a time without having a trial. So maybe not the best thing to compare it to.
No, absolutely the best comparison because the same thing happens with bans and bad moderators who ignore requests and refuse to explain a ban.
This is certainly one of the comparisons of all time
Consequence of sentencing the wrong person to death: You killed an innocent life in an irreversible action.
Consequence of permabanning a player from an online game: The player can no longer play the game. The action is also reversible since “permaban” just means to say “we’re never unbanning you unless something extraordinary were to happen”.
Bro touch grass. Seriously likening a VAC ban with the death penalty?! You can just email someone if you got banned; if you wrongfully died from the death penalty you can’t just phone the judge and ask him to recheck lmao
Judges should be using ouija boards to communicate with people killed by death penalty. “So you were guilty, right?” To make sure everyone gets a chance to appeal the decision.
shadowbanning to cheater-only servers sounds like nice middle ground to me
Fall Guy did that. The consequence was a lot of videos with everyone cheating.
so…it’s a win/win?
League of Legends was evil for this. I got shadowbanned to rhe quitters server for having a bad internet connection, and parents who’d demand I go buy groceries instantly, and yell if I fon’t.
Sometimes it’s a nice perk if you want to play modded coop with your friends ie those from mods.
If, to you, not being able to play one game in the sea of many many many games is akin to death, maybe you need to see someone about addiction.
If you cheat in a game, you’ve burned your bridge. It’s like taking a piss in the cereal isle of Kmart, you probably won’t be welcome in that Kmart any more. Or hey, maybe you’ll end up like an acquaintance I knew who was banned from a Kmart, maybe you’ll be hired on as staff without them checking the binder of banned people. I think I’ve lost the plot of this analogy.
Found a cheater
Meh, no process is perfect and sensitivity and specificity are often enemies. Basically, in a lot of cases the more sensitive you make a test to detect something, the more likely it is to accidentally catch false positives.
Sounds like they’ve vastly improved it’s ability to detect, hopefully that didn’t come with false detections for people running unusual hardware or software combinations.
I said cheaters, not suspected cheaters. I know that’s unrealistic, because no anticheat software is perfect, but I still want it.
Yeah, I have a very thoroughly ingrained suspicion of people treating anticheat with too much confidence stemming back to when I got banned many years ago from an online game for supposedly running a script.
I had so much lag on my dialup connection, that a backlog of all my commands hit their server at the same time, so from their perspective it looked like I’d entered over a dozen commands in under a second. Insta ban, no appeal, essentially lost access to a significant percentage of my online friends that it hadn’t occurred to me to get email addresses for.
You surely can permaban a cheater, and should. It doesn’t mean the process can’t be challenged.
I agree, they should instead do a 10 gazillion year temp ban. I expect people would change by that point
/j
It does not matter if they change. They violated the community’s trust, and should never be allowed to interact with that community again, if it is worth anything.
In the worst case scenario offender can just create another Steam account, so permaban is fine.
They should use Reddit’s ban system
Why not both?
